Home invasions
**I am not a lawyer, a poly-sci major, or a philosopher so my words may not be as eloquent or catchy as other policitcal blogs that we've all been posting on, so bear with me**
A discussion has started on one of my earlier posts on the subject of self-defense in one's own home. This stemmed from my dislike of Barack Obama, specifically his stance on guns and the Second Amendment. Here's a recap:
My beloved Senator (Barack Obama, Democrat, Illinois), voted against gun owner's rights.
In February 2004, in a nice suburb of Chicago, the owner of the home, Halee Demar, was charged with violating the "handgun ban" after shooting a burglar in his home. The state legislature passed a bill that would help people him from being prosecuted if they were acting in self-defense. Obama voted "no" on the bill.
So my question to everyone: Do you think it is okay to shoot an intruder in self-defense in your own home?
A fellow blogger said "What would Jesus do?" Thats a good question but I don't think God would begrudge me or send me straight to the firey depths of hell if I shot a man dead who comes into MY house with the intent to hurt my family and children.
I am a female who lives alone. I have a very good alarm system but if someone makes it in in the middle of the night, I'm shooting. People may ask "What if he wasn't armed?" Well, how the hell do I know that? I'm not going to wait and find out.
So what I'd like to know from everyone is, am I the only one out there who feels this way? And to my friends who are in law school, what is the law in regards to situations like this?
posted by Teacher Tori @ 12:01 PM
25 Comments
25 Comments:
Teacher Tori,
First, don't worry about whether or not your writing is eloquent. I can assure you that you are a greater wordsmith than your beloved George W. Bush.
Let's talk about guns. If you will go to my blog (http://consortiumofprogressivethinkers.blogspot.com/) you will find a blog entry I wrote conerning the Constution. While I touched on many of the "hot button" constituional issues, I failed to address the 2nd Amendment specifically.
In the eyes of this progressive, no part of the Constituion experinces more abuse and perversion than the 2nd Amendment.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of the free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Following a "strict construnctionalist" reading of the Constution, a manner preffered by Conservatives, one must put the Amendment into historical context.
Written in infant stages of our nation, the 2nd Amendment provided for the creation of a Militia, which would serve as a "National Guard" of sorts, protecting lands not covered by the Army or Navy. Turn with me to Article II, Section II.
"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States and of the Militia of several states, when called into the actual Service of the United States."
Clearly, this shows that the "Militia" referenced in the 2nd Amendment represents another branch of the "Armed Forces," and does not represent the American citizenry.
Translation, the Constution guarantees the right for citizens to arm themselves with the express purpose of organizing a Militia to protect their local lands. With the advent of the National Guard, this proves unnecessary.
Gun people irk me almost as much the Rapture Right. No special interest groups crys as much as Charlton Heston's bunch of blood thirsty militants.
This country already has some of the most lenient guns laws in the world and we have one of the leading murder rates in the world to prove it.
Last night, a report on 60 Minutes showed how prior to 9/11, Osama bin Laden was able to buy assault weapons in the US.
Chew on that for a while.
Perhaps this will lure W. William Melton out of retirement and back to the debate arena? I miss our debates already :(
I welcome arguments from any and all...
Tori,
Why don't you come by my blog and leave your thoughts on my Karl Rove post? It should make for interesting discussion...or post on any of my blog entries....Debate of any kind is positive.
http://consortiumofprogressivethinkers.blogspot.com/
I am a member of the Illinois Rifle Association and the NRA :)
I have a cute little tomcat but I've shot everything from an AK's to AR's, shotguns, to SP89's.
Cynic:
What would you do if there was an intruder in your house that threatens your family? Beat him with a baseball bat or is that too mean?
I watched my sister Ranting Republican fire a shotgun with a slug in it and it almost blew off her shoulder!
So cynic, do you believe nobody should have guns in the US?
Okay, I came out of retirement, and I'm global baby - out here in Vienna! Here's my stance. Shoot.
Now, Cynic, I admire your attempt to identify the origins and the framers intent regarding the 2nd Amendment; however, the "militia" as referenced to in the 2nd Amendment at the time the Constitution was written was meant to be basically any male at least of age 16 (or 17, I forget).
Now, in 1990 the Supreme Court decided United States v. Verdego-Urquirez (or something close to that). This was not a direct 2nd Amendment case as the Court has generally avoided these types of cases. This case specifically held, however, that "the people" as referenced in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and I believe 9th Amendments means the same thing.
By your logic then, along with Supreme Court wording, only the National Guard would be allowed Free Speech and Freedom of Religion, Freedom from unlawful searches and seizures and so on. This is faulty reasoning.
The law says (in most states) that you may only act with deadly force if deadly force is presented against you. This I have had many many debates on with professors. Basically, if an intruder enters your home with, say a baseball bat, you are only legally entitled to self defense with a similar object (albeit a baseball bat can be deadly, some courts would say it isn't so and use of a gun would be unlawful). You'd have to kindly ask the perpetrator to wait one minute while you yourself grabbed a hockey stick. Fuck that.
If someone stepped foot in my home, I'm shooting. I also have a gun and would never live in a house without one. Let's also not foregt that these Dems are the ones who will lock up a woman who used her martial arts skills to fight off an attacker who then fell and cracked his head and died. It's sick.
Like I always say: "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6." Shoot away Teacher Tori.
Ranting Republican,
I'm merely using the logic conservatives wish to see used on the bench...
Hell, I've give you neo-Cons the right to read the 2nd Amendment anyway you please if you will let us progressives read the 14th Amendment the way we please.
I don't think I should have to think what the intruder's intentions are before deciding what to do. "Hmm, does he have a gun, does he not?"
I doubt an intruder is breaking into my home to give me flowers or just to say "hi, how 'bout 'dem Cubs?"
My sister Ranting and I have done everything in our power to protect ourselves. We are both blackbelts, I have a security system and we happen to live alone. However, if someone breaks in, we are shooting.
mthomas, you said that taking a life is a grave responsibility, and I absolutely agree. But I happen to think breaking and entering when I am home is sufficient provocation because I don't know what his intentions are.
There are not many people I would want to kill.....besides terrorists and a few other scuzballs, and I will gladly go to trial, because as my sister says "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."
And if it comes down to it in court, I say "He said he had a gun and said he was going to kill me and my family." And of course this would be the truth because lying under oath is illegal.
Oh and I'd also like to thank Ranting from coming out of retirement. 2nd Amendment discussions are a favorite of hers and something she feels very passionate about.
Even in Europe she's still fighting for our guns :)
Tori,
All I can say is "Pure Country...look at them boots..."
Tori you belong in East Texas...with your guns and conservative views....
I bet you you can "shoot a buck and run a trotline"......
Do you dip as well?
actually, don't laugh, but I just got back from a country bar....went line dancing in my boots and cowboy hat from Texas :)
Lord knows how I ended up in a commie state in a predominantly commie career. God has a great sense of humor.
Obviously taking a life is a grave responsibility and I hope to God I never have to do it myself. But if its him or me...sorry, I look out for number one in those situations (well, in most situations, but especially in this kind of instance).
Tori's right, we have taken all necessary precautions - blackbelt, kickboxing, grappling, you name it, and it would be an intruder's biggest mistake to break into our homes, but as tough as I feel I am, if it's the middle of the night, I'm alone in my apartment, without a clue as to whether the intruder has a gun, a knife, or nothing for that matter - I'm shooting. And I do trust the courts to weed out these cases. Cuff me and take me away, I'm fine with that.
What you guys don't understand is not your fault. You're not single women living alone. If say, Cynic and I were neighbors, and some perp was casing the block, whose house do you think he would break into? Mine. There's no question. Women are brought up to be afraid of men, afraid of walking alone, and whatnot. I personally think this is wrong, and it's better to be brought up to be aware of your surroundings, and learn how to fight back -- but as tough as I am, I couldn't fight off a 6'5, 250 lb man. It's just basically that simple - I may get some good hits, but all he needs is one good hit on me, and I'm out. I'd rather shoot from a distance...(and empty my mag)...maybe reload. Kidding. But I'd shoot without hesitation if it meant my life.
Call me a crazy gun-toting Texan -- fine, I'll take that as a compliment in this case anyday.
Okay, need to go shopping! Yay Vienna!
Cynic - interpreting the 2nd Amendment is not at all difficult - it's easy to look back at the Framer's intent because the 2nd Amendment is so narrow. THe 14th Amendment opens more than a can of worms. I'm open for some loose interpretation when it comes to certain 14th Amendment issues, but you really can't compare the two.
How do I know they are only in there to steal my tv? I don't know that and wouldn't wait around to find out.
Should I say "um, excuse me, sir, are you here to rob me, rape me, or kill me?"
You make us gun owners sound irresponsible and untrained. I'm sorry but that wife is an idiot and does not deserve to have a gun in her house if she does not know how to properly handle it. She's lucky all she blew off was her foot.
And we are not "gun-crazy" and will shoot at anything that casts a shadow. Whenever I lived at my parent's house and came in at all hours of the night, my dad didn't grab the Beretta and emepty a mag into my chest.
I am smart enough to check out the situation first before taking a life. I'm not going to shoot a fireman or one of my future children.
hmmmmm, a warning shot. Where would I shoot this warning shot? Maybe into my ceiling? a wall? So give the bad guy knowledge that I'm armed so he has time to pull out his oozie?
And don't give me that crap that "he's just a guy who's had some bad breaks in life and needs some money so he broke in to help feed his starving family. Its not his fault." Bullshit, you'd probably blamee his misfortune on President Bush.
While the intruder's initial intent might be to just grab some of your worldly posessions, he finds out somebody is home.......he has 2 choices: Run away or kill the homeowners who can ID him.
I am not willing to wait around for him to make that decision.
I'm sure if I am unlucky enough for something like this to happen to me and I do have to take a life, that it will affect me in a deep and profound way. I get that and its nothing to be taken lightly. However, I don't see the "tried by 12 than carried by 6" to be simply fluff.
I value my life too much and will do whatever it takes to keep it.
mthomas, I was being sarcastic about the Bush comment :)
To all my liberals on here.......I have a question for you. What would you do in this scenario?
It is 3am and you hear voices outside and a window being broken. You hear people in the house and your wife is asleep next to you and your children down the hall. You hear people downstairs moving around and someone says "go see if there is anyone upstairs and take care of it."
What would you do?
Call 911? Hell yeah, we all would.
Do you know if they are armed, nope.
If that was me, I'd send my spouse into the bedroom with a gun to protect the kids, set off my silent alert option on my security system to alert the police and take care of business.
All I want to know is what would you do in a situation like that? You all have said what you wouldn't do, I'm just interested to hear an alternative that might actually work.
Conservatives live in constant fear...
Fear of the black male...
Fear of homosexuals marrying....
Fear of terrorists....
Fear of personal liberty...
Conservatives want their mommy and daddy...but since most conservatives suck their parents dry...they look to the government to be their mommy and daddy....
Fuck Fear!
If I die I die....but I don't need a gun....
Ok, I'm officially apathetic towards the Supreme Court nomination, Karl Rove and George Bush.
After every storm there is a sunny day:
By JAIME ARON, AP Sports Writer
July 20, 2005
IRVING, Texas (AP) -- Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith led the Dallas Cowboys back to glory with three Super Bowl wins in four years in the 1990s. So it only makes sense they're going into the team's Ring of Honor together.
And it's happening just when all three have ended their careers.
The fitting tribute to the longtime teammates nicknamed ``The Triplets'' was announced Wednesday by team owner Jerry Jones in a news conference at Texas Stadium. They will become the 13th, 14th and 15th recipients of the franchise's ultimate honor on Sept. 19 as the Cowboys host the Washington Redskins.
All three of their jerseys were draped over chairs with the stadium as a backdrop and the franchises' five Super Bowl trophies gleaming in front of them. Among other memorabilia was a picture of all three, shot from behind, as they walked off the field shoulder pad to shoulder pad.
``To be inducted into our Ring of Honor as a threesome gives us one of the most unique opportunities of any sporting team or franchise that they've ever had,'' Jones said.
Irvin retired in 1999 and Aikman followed a year later, both having spent their entire careers with the Cowboys' star on their helmets. Smith was the only one to wear another uniform, playing for Arizona the last two seasons. Although Smith's departure after the 2002 season was a bit messy, the NFL's career rushing leader reaffirmed his Dallas ties during a retirement news conference in February, and later signed a ceremonial one-day contract so he could go out as a Cowboy.
Aikman was the MVP of the crew's first Super Bowl championship and Smith was MVP of a regular season and a Super Bowl. Irvin holds every meaningful receiving record in team history and is widely regarded as the team's emotional leader during its most successful era.
As deserving and well-timed as this tribute is, it also raises the question of whether this shuts the door to the Ring for predecessors such as Drew Pearson, Harvey Martin, Ed ``Too Tall'' Jones and Charlie Waters.
Jones said the selections weren't in chronological order. ``This is all about these three men,'' he said.
If it is the start of recognizing players from the 1990s -- in other words, once Jones bought the team -- other strong candidates include Darren Woodson, Daryl Johnston and Jay Novacek. Larry Allen seems like a lock, too, once he retires.
The decision will be made by a one-man selection committee: Jones. That's also why it's unlikely former coach Jimmy Johnson will be added to that list any time soon.
Now that Aikman, Irvin and Smith have claimed this prize, the most significant career reward left is being voted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Seven of the previous 12 Ring members already have their busts on display in Canton, Ohio.
``These men are all destined for the NFL Hall of Fame, that goes without saying,'' Jones said. ``They will be there.''
Irvin came up short in his first election, but will be up for consideration again in February, when Aikman will be on the ballot for the first time. Smith won't be eligible until 2010 because of the five-year waiting period after retirement.
The trio arrived separately over three straight summers, 1988-90, each a first-round pick. Irvin was the last top choice by Tex Schramm and Tom Landry, then Aikman was the No. 1 overall pick and first made by Jones.
Irvin missed most of his rookie season because of an injury, then dealt with a 1-15 season in Aikman's rookie year. Everyone's fortunes changed once Smith arrived and forced defenses to stop the run and the pass.
The Cowboys made the playoffs in 1991 and were champions following the '92, '93 and '95 seasons. They were stopped a game short of the Super Bowl in '94, making their four-year reign the most successful in NFL history.
Over the 10 seasons all three were on the roster, 1990-99, the Cowboys were 101-59, a .631 winning percentage, with six division titles and eight playoff appearances.
Well, if the intruders do break in, the loud alarm will sound and the police will be called.
However, I have a silent alert I keep next to my bed in case the situation arises where I can't get to the phone or I am not being allowed to. And to be honest, if I heard my neighbor's alarm going off, I'd call 911 and I'm not sure what I'd do afterwards. Go and help? Stay inside?
Yes, I have security stickers on every window and door as another deterant (sp?) Hopefully, taking all of these measures will prevent me from having to use deadly force.
I would never have all of us in the same room.......I dont want these freaks getting that close first, I'd die before that. Maybe its just my maternal instincts kicking in.
mthomas, you still have not answered my question, quit dodging. I gave you a scenario in one of my above commenets, what would you do?
And Cynic, thats a bunch of horseshit.
Quit stereotyping. I'm not afraid of black men, I happen to teach at a pretty tough high school with gangbangers everywhere. If I was THAT scared, I wouldn't work here. (I'm giving a final exam right now.)
As I have said before, I really don't care if homosexuals marry or not, doesn't seriously affect my life at all.
And as for being scared of Terrorists, hell yeah I am! I watched the video of that guy getting his head sawed off. I remember 9/11 like it was yesterday, while most liberals like to forget the horror.
Does it stop me from living my daily life, heck no. Do I have a very watchful eye, especially at airports, hell yes. That doesn't mean I'm scared, its me trying to protect my fellow Americans from the Terrorists.
I really have no idea what you are taking about when it comes to conservatives wanting their mommy and daddy. Don't we all love our parents and look to them for love, help, and guidance when we are starting out? We may suck our parents dry early on, but then we go on to make all the $$$ and employ the democrats. And we don't look to the government at all to parent us, we want LESS government, its the liberals that want the BIG government.
mthomas-
I agree with your action plan and would probably do the same. however, if they don't leave and start coming up those stairs....its on!
So you hide and call 911, and then what happens...police come...WITH GUNS.
Alright, alright, kiddies. gloves off. Go to Anti-Liberali in the name-calling post.
crossing guard is my and ranting republican's younger brother. i didn't think i'd admit to him, but hey, we're family. i'll call him out when he's being nuts. he may come off as a cocky ass, and he is, but he's really smart and has a halfway decent head on his shoulders.
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